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Comic Discussion Post [CLOSED]

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http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=549

"A mandarin tastes like a lemon that killed itself". At first I was like hdu, but I've had mandarins that fit this description. So.

Emil's dialogue is... yikes. Minna has occasionally gone back and changed things before, so I hope this one will be adjusted, since some of the commentary from users makes it clear why a different phrasing should have been used.

Edited 2016-06-23 00:04 (UTC)

Yowch. There are better ways to make a joke about Emil not knowing what he's talking about...I hope she can consider rewriting it...or. Something.

Um. Definitely some interesting info on agriculture and Mikkel's language recognition. Guess that fruit must be pretty sad.

Mikkel seems pretty educated, for a dude who grew up on a farm. I'm starting to wonder about his early-life circumstances.

Also... I am not surprised about the fruit thing. Anything you get in northern regions tends to be pathetic, even if it's greenhouse-grown. Throw in an apocalypse + distance... well. I can imagine how bleh those oranges would be once they got from Iceland to Norway.

Edited 2016-06-23 00:11 (UTC)

No kidding. Maybe it's cultural -- some info pages referred to Danes being 'hoarders of ancient lore' or something to that effect. So formal education could be big in ways it isn't in other places?

Makes sense. I'm mostly surprised by how much fruit it sounds is produced, since juice was already said to be expensive. Then again, if the fruit is all wrinkly and sad, wasting it on juice would still make it expensive anyway, I guess. :|a

That makes sense! And also, since like Iceland, Bornholm was not overrun by creepies, there would probably still be a lot in the way of books (libraries!!) that would have remained intact for a long time - which means better access to education. Etc.

It sounds like a lot, but I suspect that there is some exaggeration going on... (Sigrun's "I know all the fruits!" sure you do, mate) Then again, maybe it's just ~comic magic~, who knows. xD

I have a feeling that the stuff they use for juice is probably something less exotic - like apples, most likely. Which would still be expensive, because seasons are a thing, but don't need a greenhouse to be produced.

The gift of wank!

I winced a little at that. I mean...it's meant to highlight that history is kind of fuzzy for a lot of them, but the point could have been made by him calling it French or Canadanic. He only has to be wrong, after all.

Can I return this gift? It's not what I ordered. :P

"He only has to be wrong, after all."
^ EXACTLY.

"He only has to be wrong, after all."

Exactly. I'm disturbed by the implication here that after ninety years, racial slurs survive but nothing else. I've never had people call an East Asian language that unless they wanted to be deliberately racist. They would say Japanese or Korean or just Asian if they were really that clueless. He could have said that. "Oh, that language is called Asian." He would have been right and wrong at the same time. It could have been Mikkel and Tuuri arguing what language that was, and then the argument on fruit. So many other ways this could have gone without needing a damn racial slur.

Can anyone give any info on how 'Ching-Ching' is viewed in Nordic countries? It pings as stupid and racist to me (though not terribly out of character or wrong in context) but I wouldn't go nearly as far as saying it's a slur.

/UK Chinese nonny

I'm Finnish and to me it really doesn't come across as "simple good natured ribbing without malice" as she puts it. A lot of white (especialy older) Finnish people wouldn't bat an eyelid at that or any other similar casually racist jokes, but I think most Finns around my (and Minna's) age would recognize it as an offensive thing to say.

I don't know, I just don't feel like this can be wholly blamed on a *national* cultural difference like she says. It may have very well been a personal blind spot for her, but it's not a Finland-wide one in my experience.

(I can't really comment on whether it's considered *a slur* or not, because we don't actually have a commonly used direct equivalent for the word slur in Finnish - 'hate speech' and a couple of different ways to say 'derogatory/pejorative term' (all kind of vague and widely applied) come closest, I think. The most common dictionary definition for slur is loukkaus, =insult, which can obviously mean any level of offense about literally anything.)

Oh, and I should probably clarify that I don't think 'hate speech' would apply here in any language, since it implies very deliberate malicious intent.

AYRT

Oof, just saw Minna's comment about good natured ribbing. Yeah, while I read it as people in the comic being totally ignorant and stupid about old world cultures, it was in the same vein as Emil being unthinkingly classist or otherwise offensive without any actual ill meaning. Not that it's simply not bad in Finland. That comment kind of threw me off her side there :l

Just out of curiosity, is it used as a way to mock Chinese people's accents, names, and language as ugly foreign gibber-jabber in Finnish too?

Yep.

I see.

Mmmmmmmmm nope
Nope I'm out. This is really the last straw for me. Sorry guys, I really can't make or take any more excuses for the fandom or Minna's behavior. This is really not acceptable. And honestly, looking at the comments it's inspired on multiple internet platforms (though thankfully not this one, you guys are great), I don't feel safe as a POC SSSS fan anymore.

((Sorry if this seems a little dramatic. I don't know how Dreamwidth works, but Yuu, if you feel it's best for this community, you can delete this post.))

No worries, I'm going to leave your comment up. It's relevant and not inflammatory, and your reaction is very understandable.

The interpretations of why Emil said it which people pulled out as soon as other readers started complaining were in very bad taste, and I think your view and decision is fair.

The in-universe reasoning is absolutely meaningless in a throwaway joke. It's only the reasoning of why Minna wrote it that matters, and that reasoning is...distasteful at best, particularly combined with a refusal to change it because it's 'good-natured ribbing' (Between who? Write your character's interactions as you please, but the only real conversation in writing is between you and your audience. Minna's dismissal screams to me of a certain assumption that the people who matter will not be offended.)

I'll probably continue reading, but with considerably less faith in and fondness for the author. And no longer going to buy that book.

/different anon

The in-universe reasoning is absolutely meaningless in a throwaway joke. It's only the reasoning of why Minna wrote it that matters

Yes, this. It bothered me that people might be focusing on the Watsonian (in-universe) angle, when the Doylist (real-life/authorial choice) issues are so significant.

This was handled badly.

^same as above

That people WERE focusing on Watsonian issues. Not might be. Sorry, tired, can't edit as anon orz

Minna changed Emil's slur-y dialogue again - it's Kung Fu now, and I'm much more comfortable with that, both on the Watsonian level and what it implies about Emil - and more importantly, what it says about Minna insofar that she is giving this matter some thought and is willing to fix her mistakes. Of course it doesn't magic away the baggage she obviously carries and seems to be uncomfortable dealing with, or the fact that she didn't open up a dialogue with fans (though given that this page ended up on at least one callout tumblr I also believe her about the slew of nasty comments she got in private). Ignorance is still tiring, but it does sit better with me than deliberate racist-inspired malice for laughs.

Thank you for mentioning this, anon. I probably wouldn't have noticed it on my own.

In terms of the actual content on the page, that is much better than what was there before (including the first revision).

I'm still uncomfortable with the author response as-written on this and the next page, but like you said, the fact that this page was revised again is a good sign, as it suggests that she sat down and gave some serious thought to what people were saying about it.

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Comic Discussion Post [CLOSED]

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