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Comic Discussion Post [CLOSED]

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Mmmmmmmmm nope
Nope I'm out. This is really the last straw for me. Sorry guys, I really can't make or take any more excuses for the fandom or Minna's behavior. This is really not acceptable. And honestly, looking at the comments it's inspired on multiple internet platforms (though thankfully not this one, you guys are great), I don't feel safe as a POC SSSS fan anymore.

((Sorry if this seems a little dramatic. I don't know how Dreamwidth works, but Yuu, if you feel it's best for this community, you can delete this post.))

No worries, I'm going to leave your comment up. It's relevant and not inflammatory, and your reaction is very understandable.

The interpretations of why Emil said it which people pulled out as soon as other readers started complaining were in very bad taste, and I think your view and decision is fair.

The in-universe reasoning is absolutely meaningless in a throwaway joke. It's only the reasoning of why Minna wrote it that matters, and that reasoning is...distasteful at best, particularly combined with a refusal to change it because it's 'good-natured ribbing' (Between who? Write your character's interactions as you please, but the only real conversation in writing is between you and your audience. Minna's dismissal screams to me of a certain assumption that the people who matter will not be offended.)

I'll probably continue reading, but with considerably less faith in and fondness for the author. And no longer going to buy that book.

/different anon

The in-universe reasoning is absolutely meaningless in a throwaway joke. It's only the reasoning of why Minna wrote it that matters

Yes, this. It bothered me that people might be focusing on the Watsonian (in-universe) angle, when the Doylist (real-life/authorial choice) issues are so significant.

This was handled badly.

^same as above

That people WERE focusing on Watsonian issues. Not might be. Sorry, tired, can't edit as anon orz

Just out of curiosity, is it used as a way to mock Chinese people's accents, names, and language as ugly foreign gibber-jabber in Finnish too?

Yep.

I see.

http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=550

Everyone knows mountains aren't real.

Interesting, though, 'cuz last I remember certain movements of literati painting didn't always do modeled landscapes. Yes and no, Mikkel. Yes and no.

"They didn't have any big forests, islands, and mountains to hide in like we do."

Oh, Sigrun. Somebody should get her to look at that globe. The world would blow her mind. ;p If she believed it.

Re: authorial stuff, I'm not thrilled with how this was handled. But it's shaking out in pretty much the way that I expected.

"Re: authorial stuff, I'm not thrilled with how this was handled. But it's shaking out in pretty much the way that I expected."

I didn't want to bring up the wank again but......yeah. I loved today's page but her comments soured the update as much as the slur did yesterday's. All it was were people pointing out a slur and the majority of those requests that we saw was for the word to be changed. If she received anything worse, that's terrible. but what I saw were civil requests to have the word changed out. Instead of an apology, saying that she's not ever going to touch on the topic again feels like she's just killed off and buried all of the POCs in her world and kept them dead forever. It's a bit much and doesn't favor me towards the author at the moment.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I don't want to talk about it, exactly, but not talking about it also makes me uncomfortable. So. Here we are.

She mentions being contacted privately (probably tumblr? possibly through email?) and that's probably where the most of it was, I think - because like you say, the majority of the requests for changing it etc in the comments section were not so bad. I can easily believe that these private contacts happened. And I'm not surprised, and based on yesterday's author commentary, I'm not surprised that this is the result either. But I am disappointed in how things are going.

From an author relations angle, I feel that this whole thing was not dealt with very well.

Edited 2016-06-24 01:01 (UTC)

It feels like she just went, "Welp, white people only from now on, since all the other ones are too easily offended by my perfectly innocent use of a racist insult as a joke."

I thought the original unknown infected refugees were kind of highlighting a certain kind of xenophobia, which I thought was supported by Iceland's attitude toward refugees. And, uh...now I'm wondering if I assumed layers of depth there where I possibly shouldn't have.

It's unfortunate. I really like this comic, and I love the premise and all the thought behind it, but this kind of author response makes me reconsider a lot of things in it in a rather more suspicious and skeptical light. She is not getting it, and seems offended at the very idea that she has been asked to get it.

Minna changed Emil's slur-y dialogue again - it's Kung Fu now, and I'm much more comfortable with that, both on the Watsonian level and what it implies about Emil - and more importantly, what it says about Minna insofar that she is giving this matter some thought and is willing to fix her mistakes. Of course it doesn't magic away the baggage she obviously carries and seems to be uncomfortable dealing with, or the fact that she didn't open up a dialogue with fans (though given that this page ended up on at least one callout tumblr I also believe her about the slew of nasty comments she got in private). Ignorance is still tiring, but it does sit better with me than deliberate racist-inspired malice for laughs.

Thank you for mentioning this, anon. I probably wouldn't have noticed it on my own.

In terms of the actual content on the page, that is much better than what was there before (including the first revision).

I'm still uncomfortable with the author response as-written on this and the next page, but like you said, the fact that this page was revised again is a good sign, as it suggests that she sat down and gave some serious thought to what people were saying about it.

Hmm. I've been out of the loop, and I was just trying to figure ouf if I should say anything at all and where; now the page was revised again but it doesn't change how this turned out in the first place and I also feel weird not saying anything.

An important part of the fascination of the comic for me has been how it represents the culture I come from, but it makes me uncomfortable if at the same time there seems to be a blind spot for why the perspective is important on a cultural matter. I'm disappointed at how it was handled in the a/n, and at how some people were apparently trying to explain it away. Right now this does affect how I feel about the comic and that's really sad.

(Argh, now I just want to go back to looking at the page with Lalli and the round map. That was a good page.)

http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=551

I have mixed feelings about that author's note. Still trying to process them, though.

Regarding the page itself - "We've got to go say hello!" Oh, Sigrun. :D That would be pretty cool. ...Somebody should write something where they run into some survivors. Maybe they wouldn't get as far as China (a ten-year journey is a pretty long time...), but I'd love to explore them meeting someone else. (But somebody other than me should write it, because I am lazy.)

As for Reynir... hm. Christianity-related stuff isn't really something I'd been hoping to see in this comic. But I guess we'll see where this goes.
Now that I think of it, perhaps his vision was only indicative of specific locations/objects... Impossible to say at this point either way.

Edited 2016-06-26 21:22 (UTC)

Even with everything these last few days, I would love to see other cultures' and religions' mages...and the unique defense strategies that have developed in different geographical regions.

...how much overtime can the crew afford, now?*

*And by all this I mean 'please get on this, and respectfully so, fandom'.

Yeah, same! I would love to see that!

...To be honest, the general concept (cultures in other areas and relevant defence strategies) resurrected an idea I'd stuffed in a drawer a while ago, relating to Chipewyan and Cree survivors in northern Canada... but oh dear gods, the thought of the research I'd have to do if I wanted to include anything religious. It makes my head hurt. ...Maybe when the library reopens....

Well, if the work is hard, it's 'cause you're doing it right! \o/ And it if helps, I've always found it's best to chip away at research slowly. Little bit at a time so you can process it all properly.

Well, if the work is hard, it's 'cause you're doing it right! \o

Not a bad principle to live by! /Writes this down
Hmmm you're right, you're right, of course. Whole-assing something rather than half-assing it takes time and consideration. ;V

Yes, I fully understand your feelings! I'm kind of cracking up because in my fic posted well before last week, Sigrun literally gets a chance to go visit a Chinese Wu by the time she's 82 years old. By then Reynir and Lalli are living together in Iceland and faced with their own problems though it was their dream-conversation that alerts Sigrun to look looking for the Wu, Emil is in Sweden and worried over an ill granddaughter and being helped by a visiting elder Mikkel, and Tuuri (who's married Sigrun at some point after their famed expedition) has since learned enough of Mandarin to help her via the radio in her journey to meet the mage. All part of my wish that at some point the Known World will keep expanding to include more and more nations. :)

And this is connected to another story, a big one, that I've been plotting ever since my first read through of the comics. So I'm kind of cracking up how this all happened before last Wednesday, although unfortunately in the comic it had to happen the way it did (the current page with Kung Fu is so much tamer from every angle you look at. I can see how one of Emil's ancestors must have really liked Kung Fu movies, for example, and all this talk about Kung Fu movies may have eventually conflated the term Kung Fu with Chinese, hence explaining why he could correctly recognize the language.)

I have mixed feelings about that author's note. Still trying to process them, though.
Same with me. The response hasn't been making me too pleased, to be perfectly honest.

I'd love to explore them meeting someone else. (But somebody other than me should write it, because I am lazy.)
Heee...well...look at my response below. ;) (I didn't want to say too much about this big project of mine, but this is making me a little excited about it.)

As for Reynir, I think the dream might just point him towards one step in his journey. Perhaps underneath that Bible is a book on Icelandic magic, for example? :) Or a diary of a priest struggling with his faith as he finds himself able to cast magic? I guess we'll find out more this week! :)

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